COLIN POWELL TESTIFIES BEFORE THE SENATE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE

SPEAKER: COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE

LOCATION: WASHINGTON, D.C.

WITNESSES: COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE

SECRETARY OF STATE COLIN POWELL TESTIFIES BEFORE THE U.S. SENATE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS HEARING ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND THE FY '03 SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATIONS BILL

APRIL 30, 2002

LEAHY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Secretary, just to follow up a little bit on what we were saying early on. And you had mentioned -- we were talking about the Africa Growth and Opportunities Act -- the standards that are set in there to have to show progress toward political pluralism, good governance, human rights, and things we all agree on.

LEAHY: And then you said that of course that should be the hallmark anyway. But is that the hallmark? I mean in the supplemental request I find that I don't see that in the aid that might go to several countries. The administration is talking to the defense appropriations subcommittee looking for ways to get rid of a number of the standards we now have, whether it's in Indonesia, Colombia, elsewhere.

And are we going to have one standard if we have something like growth in Africa or building up some of these countries have been admittedly ignored by administrations of both parties for years, but a different standard if we feel that somehow it's connected to war against terrorism?

POWELL: I think each country has to be measured against the state of its political and economic development. In the case of Indonesia, it's a nation that I think is moving in the right direction. It's been through some difficult times. And I think this is a time for us to begin supporting their military again and make sure that that military is exposed to U.S. values, Western values, that we have an opportunity to work them, to train with them, to invest in them to make them a positive force within that country, without overlooking some of the problems that might have existed in the past and also pressing the Indonesian government to take action against past human rights abuses.

So as we work with a country and foster its political development, we should be prepared to invest in those institutions that may not have met the standard that we're anxious for them to meet fully, but are moving in the right direction and have that as their goal.

LEAHY: I worry about that. You mention Indonesia. I think about what happened in East Timor. I know that some of the army officers most involved with the atrocities there never really faced any consequence for their actions. And we had been (inaudible) the training of some of the military who were involved in those atrocities. So at what point do we say we are going to apply the standards we apply to other aid recipients?

POWELL: We have to make that -- it's a judgment call. Many of the officers that we did train did not participate in atrocities. And we have had some success, I think, in counseling Indonesia as to how they might deal with other problems they have, in Aceh and other places, so that you don't have a repetition of what happened in East Timor.

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