Subject: UN: Press Conf. by SG and others
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:08:59 -0500
From: "John M. Miller" <fbp@igc.apc.org> 12 March 1999
Press Release SG/SM/6922
PRESS CONFERENCE BY SECRETARY-GENERAL KOFI ANNAN, HIS PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE FOR EAST
TIMOR, AND FOREIGN MINISTERS OF INDONESIA AND PORTUGAL
19990312
The following is a near-verbatim transcript of the press conference on the East Timor
talks, held at Headquarters on 11 March, with Secretary-General Kofi Annan; Ambassador
Jamsheed Marker, Personal Representative of the Secretary-General for East Timor; Ali
Alatas, Foreign Minister of Indonesia; and Jaime Gama, Foreign Minister of Portugal.
SECRETARY-GENERAL: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I am happy you are here in
your numbers to find out what happened with this round of discussions. Let me first thank
the Ministers for their presence and the cooperative spirit they displayed throughout our
talks. We have just completed a very positive and constructive round of talks and the main
issues we discussed at this round were, one, the autonomy proposals for East Timor and its
finalization; two, the method of consulting the people of East Timor on the autonomy
proposal; and three, the situation in East Timor.
Foreign Minister Ali Alatas of Indonesia informed the meeting that he will convey to
the tripartite forum Indonesia's revisions of the autonomy plan as soon as these are
completed. And I think he indicated to you yesterday that further discussions were going
on at home.
On the means of consulting the East Timorese, which I know is of great interest to you,
the meeting has reached an agreement that a method of direct ballot will be used to ask
the people of East Timor whether they accept or reject the autonomy proposal. The specific
modalities of how the popular consultation will be carried out are being worked out at the
moment. Members of my Personal Representative's staff will soon be visiting Jakarta, East
Timor and Lisbon to continue the process of consulting East Timorese leaders and
personalities. While the situation in East Timor remains a matter of concern to all the
parties, I welcome the recent positive steps to promote dialogue and reconciliation
amongst the East Timorese. In particular, I am encouraged by efforts to set up a mechanism
for fostering peace and stability in East Timor to which I am prepared to lend my full
support.
As to the next steps, let me share with you what we've decided to do. We shall organize
a senior officials meeting here in New York on 13 and 14 April, under the chairmanship of
my Personal Representative Ambassador Jamsheed Marker. We will follow that with a meeting
of the two Ministers and myself on 22 April, again in New York. We will now take your
questions.
Question-and-Answer Session
QUESTION: On behalf of the United Nations Correspondents Association (UNCA), to you,
the two Ministers and your Personal Representative, welcome. The first question is to you,
Mr. Secretary-General. Once the political settlement is reached, have you discussed what
kind of United Nations involvement will be in place?
- 2 - Press Release SG/SM/6922 12 March 1999
SECRETARY-GENERAL: We are in the middle of discussing that and, obviously, the United
Nations will have to play an important role. And these are some of the issues that we will
discuss and clarify with friends of the process, with the Security Council, as we move
forward. And it tends to become much clearer once we have agreed on the plan, which I hope
we will be able to do by next month. We are still trying to meet the deadline we set of
settling the autonomy plan by end of April.
QUESTION: My question is to Mr. Alatas. The situation on the ground seems to be the
thing that is preoccupying people the most at the moment. In the meantime, while we wait
for the final agreement, people are dying and it's not now just a question of the violence
between those who are in favour and against independence, it's also a question of
shortages of food. We've heard reports in the last few days of the situation getting quite
nasty -- 3,000 teachers have asked to be evacuated. Could you tell us what steps your
Government is taking to try to improve the situation on the ground to prevent bloodshed
and to get food there?
Mr. ALATAS: Well, we are continuously trying to address the issues that you raised in a
comprehensive manner. Let me first say, however, that, as usual, there is a lot of
exaggeration about the food situation, and so on. I've read the dire predictions of José
Ramos Horta about the impending food shortage, as if we will be soon seeing East Timorese
falling down in the street because of hunger. There is no such thing. We are in a very
severe economic and financial crisis all over Indonesia. That is admitted, but we don't
have anywhere in Indonesia, famine. We have overcome earlier threats to shortages of food,
especially rice. So, if there are any shortages of food in East Timor, they will be
quickly overcome because no where in Indonesia is there any famine.
As to the question of teachers and medical personnel feeling very nervous in East
Timor, that, unfortunately, is the result of a period of harassment, intimidation and even
murder by pro-independence East Timorese, that has been perpetrated against especially
these two categories of people because they are mostly coming from outside East Timor. But
I think that is the most stupid thing to do for any nation, because now we have great
problems in trying to convince the medical personnel not to leave East Timor. We have
continuous talks with the teachers, who are up in arms and want to be sent back home. We
hope we will be able to convince them that leaving East Timor would cause a lot of
problems for the East Timorese. But let me stress once again, this is a situation caused
by very irresponsible elements of precisely those who want independence and not those who
want integration, who have no interest in causing this kind of situations.
There has also been fighting, unfortunately. There has been tensions between the two
groups -- those for integration and for independence. But we are trying to overcome them,
as I have said, in a comprehensive way. We are
- 3 - Press Release SG/SM/6922 12 March 1999
trying to set up a group of accepted and acceptable leaders from all groups, including
Xanana Gusmao. This is a proposal by our National Commission on Human Rights. One of the
first encouraging steps has been what the Secretary- General has just referred to, namely,
the meeting between the chief representative of the armed factions of pro-integration with
Xanana Gusmao. They have agreed to stop the fighting there. I hope that their joint appeal
to both groups will have an effect. Beyond that, we are going to see the creation of a
commission of peace and reconciliation, which we hope will include all members of the
different factions in East Timor and different political persuasions.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary-General, do you see that there is political will in the
Security Council to finance a United Nations mission in East Timor? And to the Ministers,
it has been suggested, even by some pro- integration leaders in East Timor, that an early
release of Xanana Gusmao would be very helpful to this process. My question to the
Portuguese Minister is, is it helpful? My question to the Indonesian Minister is, is it
helpful, are you going to do it, and if so, when?
SECRETARY-GENERAL: On the first question, I hope the Security Council will find a way
of financing this operation, if and when we get there. I believe that it is a problem that
has been with us for quite a while, and everybody has been searching for a solution. For
the first time, we seem to be moving forward, and I would hope that the process would not
stop or fall apart for lack of funding. I don't think the Council would want that on its
hands.
Mr. GAMA: We have been insisting on the liberation of political prisoners as a factor
for reconciliation. There has been some progress, but, unfortunately, that progress has
not been totally accomplished. We have been presenting the United Nations elements
relating to the situation of the political prisoners. Now that needs to be compared with
others, namely, the ones that are in the possession of the Indonesian Government. We hope
that along this process we can have the release of all the political prisoners, including
Xanana Gusmao. It will be, as you can understand, a big impulse towards a peaceful
settlement of this problem. But as you know, the solution of that question is not
dependent on my Government.
Mr. ALATAS: If the purpose for asking the early release of Xanana Gusmao is for him to
be able to play a role in the process of finding a solution to East Timor, to be more
active in that process, to be consulted, and so on -- this is already happening. We have
recently, as you know, moved him out of the prison into a special house. He is receiving
more visitors than I do and not in a prisoner's garb. He is playing his role. So I want to
know what else is the purpose then for him to be released earlier, in which he can play
even a better role.
- 4 - Press Release SG/SM/6922 12 March 1999
We believe that there are other factors at stake for our Government to take into
consideration. There are many East Timorese in Indonesia who would be up in arms if we
were to release him early because they feel that they have been the victims of what he has
been doing for years as head of the group that was fighting against the Government. There
will be a lot of people who would be very uneasy if we were to change our law under
pressure because he is someone who has, apart from his political beliefs, been convicted
on some of the things he has done which are criminal in nature -- killing people, burning
villages, stealing cattle, etc. Therefore, we believe that we have gone very far in
accommodating what the international community would like us to do, and that is include
him actively in this process. He is already being included.
As for the other political prisoners, we have made great strides, in that this
Government has released almost all the political prisoners, but it is a legal process. We
cannot do it just by the stroke of a pen. We have to check case by case and they are
released in batches, by giving amnesty to certain groups. There are now only 17 to 18 East
Timorese prisoners left who are eligible for release, outside of Xanana Gusmao. I am sure
that within a short span of time we will be able to announce the release of these
remaining people.
SECRETARY-GENERAL: As you know, we have all encouraged the Indonesian Government to
ensure that Mr. Gusmao is able to play his role in this. What the Minister has indicated
is correct, that he is now under house arrest, which we had discussed with the Government,
and he is now able to play a role. Perhaps, what the Minister may want to comment on is
the fact that his release may come as part of this whole solution. I think that,
eventually, he has to be released, and a comment from you would be helpful.
Mr. ALATAS: Thank you, Mr. Secretary-General. I forgot to mention that, because that is
long-standing policy. We have announced from the very beginning that Xanana Gusmao will be
released as part and parcel of an overall settlement. So, the minute we have reached an
overall settlement of the question of East Timor, his release will be automatic. We do not
need to negotiate that any longer with anyone, but we will do it ourselves.
QUESTION: There have been a number of ideas discussed, obviously you are still working
out specific modalities as you said, but we had heard the idea of a rolling ballot as one
of the options discussed today. I was wondering whether you could clarify what a rolling
ballot means in this context and what advantages that offers, that you could not agree on
in a referendum.
SECRETARY-GENERAL: Let me say that we did not discuss in detail this sort of rolling
ballot. What we have sought to do is to select the most democratic and direct means
possible to consult the East Timorese. Obviously, there are logistical considerations to
factor into any decision that we take.
- 5 - Press Release SG/SM/6922 12 March 1999
Given the fact that the polls will not be held only in the territory of East Timor, but
in the diaspora, where East Timorese live in large numbers -- from Portugal to Australia
to the United States and other parts of the world where there are large numbers of East
Timorese. So we have to organize it in such a way that we can pool all those East Timorese
whether they live in the diaspora or in the territory. These are the logistical aspects
that we are going to be working out and as I indicated, a team from Mr. Marker's office
will go to the ground and visit some of these capitals for us to be able to firm up our
plans.
QUESTION: I would like to ask to both the Ministers, what are the differences between
your positions now, if any, concerning this matter of consultation. Can you clarify this?
For the Secretary-General, what would the United Nations need to provide this consultation
and when do you intend to do that? Don't you think it will be useful to form a delegation
to deal with this as soon as possible?
SECRETARY-GENERAL: On the question of a United Nations presence, let me say that we did
discuss it and I would hope that immediately after the agreement, which as I indicated
would be by the end of next month, we will establish a United Nations presence there. In
the meantime, the United Nations staff are able to visit and go in and out. As we
indicated, fairly soon we are sending a team to the region.
On the question of the method of consulting the East Timorese if there were any
disagreement, I will say that, as someone who chaired the meeting, we had unanimity as to
the approach and the method, but I will let the Ministers speak for themselves.
Mr. ALATAS: Well, as I have tried to explain on several occasions and just now a few
minutes ago before CNN, our objection to applying the method of a full-fledged referendum
in order to determine or ascertain the views of the East Timorese towards a package of
autonomy, whether they accept it or whether they reject it, is that it may not be the most
efficient or the most effective method. Furthermore, a full-fledged referendum is a method
that is fraught with risks.
Also, it is cumbersome because it has to fulfil certain formalities according to the
United Nations before you can apply a full fledged official referendum. For one thing,
everything has to take place in East Timor itself. Of course, because it will be a United
Nations conducted referendum, the United Nations must come in there, United Nations
peacekeeping troops must be there after debate at the Security Council to replace the
Indonesian presence there. Then all the people abroad -- the East Timorese from Australia,
Lisbon and so on -- have to participate. They have to be back there in East Timor, we have
to allow them all back, including, of course, Xanana Gusmao, and so on. This method is
quite democratic theoretically, but practically speaking, it is fraught with risks of
returning conflict.
- 6 - Press Release SG/SM/6922 12 March 1999
Indonesia is not against a referendum because we are afraid of the results. I would
like to point out to you that a change has now occurred in the Indonesian position. We are
offering independence already. So whether the assessment of the views of the East Timorese
will result in acceptance of autonomy or in a rejection of autonomy, meaning independence,
for us it is no longer a problem. In the past, you may have assumed that Indonesia is
against a referendum because we are afraid of the results. We are not.
Indonesia is also not against a referendum because we want to be undemocratic. On the
contrary, from the beginning we have said that although we honestly believe that the
referendum may not be the right methodology because of its formalities and its
cumbersomeness, we are in favour of assessing the views of as many, if not all, of the
East Timorese in other ways. For example, by having an assessment abroad by a United
Nations team and an assessment in East Timor, so you do not bring them together. So you do
not have any peacekeeping troops, etc. There are methods that are just as democratic.
Let me stress one thing, Indonesia is vitally interested to have as many East Timorese
approached for a view because we are eager to see whether it is really true, what for
years now we have been enduring from people like Ramos Horta saying, that 90 per cent of
the East Timorese are for independence. I would like to see very much, but for that we
need all of them to be approached and to participate in the counting, including in the
villages, and not only the vocal few who live in Lisbon or Australia. We are not
undemocratic, on the contrary, we want as many East Timorese -- as far as the funds and
the time is concerned -- to be approached. Please don't have any misunderstandings. I
think it is the other side that is getting a little bit nervous because we are calling
their bluff now. Now we are saying fine, let them find out, and if they want autonomy,
fine. If they want independence, fine. We are relaxed and have no more fears. Please,
choose what you want. I hope this is now finally understood by everybody, including the
press.
Mr. GAMA: I would like to comment on this point. First, on our side what is important
is not words but the substance of the issue. We have been stressing -- and now we are
coming very, very close -- that it would be a consultation of the East Timorese conducted
by the United Nations and democratic. In modern times, you have no democratic consultation
which is not universal. All the countries have elections. Indonesia is gearing to have a
general and democratic election. For us the methodology for consulting the East Timorese
will be equal to the methodology used in free and fair elections in democratic countries.
That is why we have come to a conclusion in the negotiations yesterday and today. It is a
turning point, but we still need some details. The consolidation of free and fair
consultations for the East Timorese have been acquired in this process.
QUESTION: MR. Alatas, what do you think the result of the consultations is going to be?
- 7 - Press Release SG/SM/6922 12 March 1999
Mr. ALATAS: Frankly, I don't know, but, as I said, I am eager to know. Finally then we
will know whether it is true that 90 per cent are for independence and only 10 per cent
are for integration, or whether it is otherwise. As far as the results are concerned, we
don't know.
QUESTION: Would this balloting take place on a single day or would it be over several
days, or one day in East Timor and over several days in the diaspora? And we are talking
about a United Nations organized, United Nations conducted ballot. You do all agree on
that, yes?
SECRETARY-GENERAL: That is what we are talking about. Obviously it will depend on our
own team going down on the ground, visiting the areas concerned. We would want to do it in
as short a time period as possible, but there will be voting in different time zones. So
we need to be clear on that. If we want people in the diaspora, those in New York cannot
vote the same day or the same time as those in East Timor. These are the logistical and
other things we need to work out. We will organize the votes in a concentrated manner and
try to get the results out as quickly as possible. So they will be able to vote in East
Timor and wherever they live in the key centres, and then the results will be made known
as soon as possible.
Mr. ALATAS: It is precisely as you have described. There has never been at any time a
proposal by Indonesia that such a consultation would stretch out over weeks or months,
which Mr. Gama said was a joke. Well, we never made that joke. Let's at least correct that
misinterpretation.
Mr. GAMA: I would just like to emphasize that according to the exile situation,
obviously the voting of the diaspora will not take place at the same time. But for East
Timor, I would like to stress that, if it is possible to have elections in such a big
country -- more than 200 million in Indonesia in one day, then why not the East Timor
territory to have the balloting in one day. That is our opinion.
SECRETARY-GENERAL: That is our intention anyway.
QUESTION: How many people are going to vote? I mean 280,000 in East Timor, but beyond
that what is the whole figure?
Mr. ALATAS: Well we don't know. According to the numbers registered during the most
recent elections in Indonesia, but that includes, of course, people who are not of East
Timorese identity but also other people who are there in East Timor, there are around
600,000 eligible voters out of a population of about 800,000. That is in East Timor alone.
I don't know the numbers in the diaspora, but I've been told, and please correct me if I'm
wrong, that it is between 20,000 and 30,000 spread out in several countries -- mostly in
Portugal, Australia, Macau, the United States and Canada. These are the numbers we are
talking about.
- 8 - Press Release SG/SM/6922 12 March 1999
SECRETARY-GENERAL: Jamsheed, do you want to say something here?
Mr. MARKER: At the moment, no. We will have to find out exactly. We are not in a
position yet to give any realistic figures. But this will be part of the exercise we will
be working on.
QUESTION: I was going to ask Mr. Marker what he thought. He has been following this
process regarding these two gentlemen. Is this a significant point that we're at or do you
feel there is a lot more to go in this process? And how would you describe the atmosphere
in these talks? We heard that things were tense, that there were some insults on the first
day. Summarize what has happened here over the last two days and what it means for the
future.
Mr. MARKER: I can say that there is not a spot of blood on the carpets on the 38th
floor. At one stage, I mentioned that I hoped it would be possible for the press to have
been in the corridors because the laughter that came out of the room was almost raucous.
The atmosphere was very good as the Secretary-General suggested.
QUESTION: Laughing at each other or with each other?
Mr. MARKER: With each other. A bit of both actually. But it was a very constructive and
very helpful meeting. I endorse what both the Foreign Ministers have said that there has
been a significant advance. I have no doubt that a lot of difficulties still remain, but I
believe that we have taken a very large step forward. One can really look with confidence
towards a solution.
SECRETARY-GENERAL: I think what Ambassador Marker refused to share with you is that at
one point he whispered to me that he was perhaps beginning to think of life after East
Timor.
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