|Australian Documentary Details Indonesian Government Funding of the
Australia's SBS TV 'dateline' program links militia funding directly to
the Indonesian government - involving the Department of Foreign Affairs
and Cabinet ministers amongst others. It follows the money trail and
explores the continued misuse of World Bank funds to bankroll the militia
killings. The revelations of state complicity raise questions about the
capacity of an Indonesian government appointed court to investigate those
most responsible for the recent murders in East Timor.
Wednesday February 16, 2000 8.30 pm
REPEATED IN AUSTRALIA THURSDAY FEBRUARY 17 at 12.30 pm
This week, an exclusive report from Mark Davis on how Indonesian
Government ministers used aid money to fund last year's campaign of terror
in East Timor. In his first report for SBS, Davis reveals that at least
$Aus12 million earmarked for welfare and development, was channelled from
the World Bank directly to the militias. Other government departments were
also funding the militias including an additional nine billion rupiah from
Indonesia's Foreign Affairs Department. "The implications of
government departments directly diverting money to militias are
enormous," Davis says. "It exposes Ministers to war crimes
prosecutions and the State, to massive compensation claims." Davis
searched through the ruined offices of the Department of Finance in Dili
to find a paper trail linking militia payments directly to the Indonesian
Government. He interviews the head of the department's budget section,
Joao da Silva, who had intimate access to all departments in the public
service. Da Silva told Davis he was the officer overseeing the payments to
the militias "because when they came to the Governor (of East Timor)
for money, the Governor sent them to us and we had to prepare it quickly.
"We had to do it quickly because the money was to support their
activities," Da Silva says. According to Ben Fisher, of the World
Bank's Jakarta office, the institution was aware of the scam and sought
assurances from the Indonesian Government that it would end. However,
despite government claims, it appears the scam continued. "We did all
we could short of stopping overall support," Mr Fisher tells Davis,
but when pressed on why the bank did not go further, he declared that it
was "a political question." Davis also confronts former Foreign
Affairs Minister, Ali Alatas, who angrily denies the allegations that
elements within the Indonesian Foreign Ministry organised major donations
to the militias.
THE TEXT OF THIS PROGRAM FOLLOWS. IT IS COPIED FROM THE SBS /
'DATELINE' WEBSITE AT www.sbs.com.au/dateline
DATELINE Wednesday 16 February 2000 Mark Davis reports
In a forest West of Dili, Filomena Amaral is about to learn the details
of how her husband, a village schoolteacher and church leader, was
tortured and killed.
Filomena " Why was he killed? Was he a thief? Did he steal
people's things or did he kill people like they killed him? No he died
Photographs of her husbands shattered bones are needed as evidence in
the event that his killers are ever brought to trial.
The forensic team will piece together the final moments of her
husband's life... but the real evidence concerning his death isn't buried
here; It's buried in filing cabinets, government memos and bank records .
Buried in the minds of elegant men in suits who incited approved of and
paid for this executionand who, it would appear, are going to get away
Alatas "I don't know what you are talking about, because you are
talking about things as if we are in the business of funding the militias.
Mark: Yes, exactly. Exactly
Which is not. Which is not. How can I talk about things which we did
A suspected militiaman has been found hiding in a house in Dili.
As the crowd grows it is probably the suspects good fortune that he is
arrested but given the hundreds, possibly thousands of people that were
killed here, there has been remarkably few arrests such as this.and all of
them have been relatively minor figures.
There is now little doubt that if justice were to be served it would be
Indonesian Generals being dragged from their houses todaybut even their
involvement only tells half of the real story
The handiwork of the Indonesian Army is fairly plain to see and their
involvement has been the focus of most inquiries to date. But were
Indonesia's generals acting as rogue elements in East Timor or under
orders? Were the war criminals in the government itself.
So far, Indonesian intelligence and Military figures have all stuck
together in recounting their version of events in East Timor.but they
never dreamt that this man would turn and give evidence against them.
Thomas Gonsalves was Indonesia's closest friend in East Timor for 24
Gonsalves was the leader of the pro Indonesian forces that led the
invasion of East Timor at Balibo in 1975. He is a veteran pro indonesian
soldier, intelligence figure and politician. When the pro indonesian
militia and intelligence groups were reactivated in 1998, Thomas accepted
the army's invitation to take a leadership role. He was a natural choice.
Thomas "Oh, yes, many times since last year. I attended many
meetings. Almost every week we had meetings."
Mark: That was with Suratman?
At two preliminary inquiries into Human rights abuses in East Timor
Thomas's evidence has proved devastating to the Indonesian army but in
this his first television interview he implicates not just generals but
remarkably Senior ministers of the Indon government.
Thomas "I met with four of them. Generals Adam Damiri, Kiki
Shyanakri, Amirud and the Minister for Transmigration, Hendro Priyono. The
point they made was if we continued to defend the white and red flag, they
were ready to provide any funds, and all sorts of guns and all the troops
here could help us."
According to Thomas and others Hendro Priyono's enthusiasm to create
and incite a militia force was so extreme that he even offered to don
camouflage and fire the guns himselfbut in the end he just provided the
money for others to do it
Thomas "We went to his office. That's when he told Governor
Abilio's brother, Chiquito, the chief of the Transmigration Department in
Timor, to devote the whole departmental budget for the use of the
The implications of a government departments directly diverting money
to militias are enormous - it exposes ministers to possible criminal
prosecution and the State to massive compensation claims.
And as I was to learn Transmigration was by no means the only
Department to contribute fundsand all of those contributions were recorded
in some way by the bureaucracy
All the government buildings and most of the documents they contained
have been destroyed by soldiers but the people who wrote those documents,
copied them and filed them are still in Dili. but to date there's been
little interest in finding the local bureaucrats who administered the flow
of money from the government to the militias.
Xanana Gusmao and his CNRT leadership have been particularly singular
in who they blame for the destruction of their country. The only
accusations they make are against the Indonesian army. Xanana has said
little that would implicate any Indonesian government figures with whom he
is trying to re-establish relation.
Sebastion "We need to continue gathering evidence of the violence
in East Timor. Whereas you, the President and CNRT are promoting
reconciliation amongst the East Timorese."
Like many young people in East Timor, former student leader Sebastion
Gutteres believes that the pursuit of reconciliation, of fence mending
with the Indonesian government is clouding the search for the truth.
Sebastion "there is only interest in providing eye witness for the
killings. But for searching for deeper evidence, documents, how they
operated, no one is doing this.
Mark: and who was paying them.
Seb: yeah, who gave the orders, nothing so far has happened on
Both Sebastion and former Independence activist, Jose Apparitio had
friends and relatives killed in the violence last year. They're been
looking for answers of their own and they agree to help me follow the
paper and money trail across Dili.
Sebastion "these guys are civil servants, one from finance the
other police" or "there going to get some documents"
The Department of Finance in Dili was the clearing house for all
government funds that entered East Timor..
This building was destroyed and looted by Indonesian soldiersbut by a
stroke of luck the upper floor didn't catch fire
As head of the budget section in the Department of Finance Jao Da Silva
had intimate access to all departments in the public service. His job was
to oversee and monitor where government money was going and from this room
it was going to the miltias.
"With regard to the militia, my boss put me in charge of the
money. Because they used to go to the Governor who'd have our boss tell us
to get the money quickly for their activities."
Jao confirms money from the transmigration department was given to
militia groups. But they weren't the only department to contribute for the
"Socialisation of Autonomy" - a term which had become open code
in the public service for propaganda and militia activities to ensure the
victory of the pro indonesian autonomy groups at the upcoming referendum.
"All departments must donate. Transmigration, Agriculture,
Forestry, all must give for the " socialisation of autonomy."
The intimate connections between ministries and the militias began in
Jakarta in February 1999 at a dinner at the home of the Minister for
Information, Yunus Yosfiah
Thomas Gonsalves was thereand by coincidence so was I Thomas Mark in
English: "Was that in Feb? I was there, standing outside!"
Thomas "He wouldn't want to see journalists. Yunus said that
journalists should go to his office." . At the time of the dinner in
February in Feb 99, the militias were still a very small and largely
unknown group. A handful of individuals had come to prominence after
admitting to the murder and mutilation of people in remote villages.
In Feb I was following one of these killers through Jakarta, expecting
him to be arrested, not to visit the home of a minister. I watched as the
cream of the then tiny militia movement walked into Yunus Yosfiah's home.
Thomas "Mark: So Yunus Yosfia said he would provide you with guns
if you needed them? Thomas: Yes."
Yunus Yosfiah's connection with guns and East Timor go back some time.
In 1975 he was in charge of a frontline Indonesian unit involved in the
initial invasion of East Timor. And it has been alledged that he was the
officer who ordered the execution of 5 western journalists in the town of
According to Thomas, Yosfiah believed the army in East Timor had become
too soft under the command of Colonel Tono Suratman.an extraordinary
proposition given that dozens of people had been recently shot and
mutilated by Suratman's soldiers and militias. Yosfiah offered to make
introductions so the militias could obtain direct government support.
"In his conversation on preparing the militia he even called Tono
Suratman a coward because he was taking too long to act. We should act now
because we're ready to support you with guns or anything else."
Within a fortnight of the dinner more than two million Aust dollars
arrived from a source inJakarta to launch the miltias as a formal movement
in every corner of East Timor. The money came through the miltias newly
formed political front the FPDK, or the Forum for Unity, Democracy and
Justice. Forced recruitment began immediately. A bunch of obscure thugs
now had the imprimatur of figures in Jakartaand the cash to back it
Thomas Gonsalves and his colleague Rui Lopez were asked to formally
lead the new militia movement
Rui Lopez was another figure with intimate connections with Indonesian
military and intelligence. Although they remained in the network, Thomas
and Rui declined to become the official leaders of the militia even though
the money that was being offered was coming from and impeccable source.
Rui & Thomas. "What I know is that the first money given out
went to the FPDK. FPDK was the first pro-autonomy organisation.It was set
up by the army but the money came from the Foreign Affairs department from
Mr Ali Alatas because it was Chico Lopes who lobbied for the money
together with Domingos Coli"
Thomas: 17 Billion Rupiah provided by Ali Alatas for FPDK."
RUI : "Billions."
According to Thomas and Rui and another key witness the bagman for the
Foreign Affairs money was Francisco Lopez da cruz...the Department's
'Special Envoy to East Timor'. Who arrived with a first instalment of 9
"Mark: Was it your Department Sir?
Alatas: Our department was engaged in diplomacy, in diplomacy abroad,
you know and negotiating with the UN.
M: Was it your department that gave 9 Billion Rupiah to the FPDK, which
was the main militia umbrella group?
A: No No, we are not, how do you call it, involved in internal things,
M: Cico Lopes Da Cruz - he is part of your department?
A: He is, he was. Well, he is still perhaps, how do you call it,
special envoy on East Timor, yes.
"Mark: Lopes da Cruz gave them 9 Billion rupiah. He works for your
department he says it came with your authority.
A: Yes but that was not for militia. That was for general information
Rui Da Costa "one was shot here" etc
Perhaps more than anyone else in East Timor, Rui Da Costa knows what
the information campaigns of the FPDK and their militias entailed..
Rui "Without any reason they killed two boys here"
As the militia network expanded across East Timor, Rui risked his own
life to voluntarily investigate and document the deaths of 200 others.
Rui's list contains 200 people who had ignored the political message of
the FPDK and their militias.
And the distinguishing feature of the killings that occurred before the
referendum was that nearly all them were mutilated as a gruesome warning
to others. This was the most effective education campaign in the first
half of 99.
"it says 'Assassinated by the barbarities of the monstrous
Rui: "They cut his throat and cut out his tongue. Mark: They cut
his tongue! Why?
Rui: I don't know why. This is the question."
Highly placed witnesses in Dili are prepared to testify that the
Foreign Affairs money went directly to the FPDK and their militias. Ali
Alatas maintains that his dept may have contributed to "socialisation
teams" - quasi government bodies designed to explain the processes of
the referendum to the population.
Alatas 13.45 " There was money of course for the efforts towards
spreading of information, of information. We agreed there would be a
socialisation period, we agreed with the UN that there would be a
This is a budget that has been found from one the 'socialisation
teams.' Although it has made every attempt to be relatively discreet it's
fairly clear how this money was spent
It includes wages and uniforms for 150 people, money for instructors
Costs for the local Military Commander and Police Chief for their
assistance in explaining the democratic processes
And grants to the BRTT, a senior pro integration group with links to
the militias, the FPDK, the forum for Unity Democracy and Justiceand
specifically by name the known militia group ABLAI an acronym of "I
will fight to preserve integration" All of them doing there best to
explain the electoral system
As Ali Alatas began negotiating with the UN over the processes of the
referendum, international attention was starting to focus on the growing
terror campaign in East Timor. A direct connection with his department
would have been terminal for Indonesia's bargaining position. The second
instalments promised to the FPDK was cancelled.
Adelino Gutteres "Alitas ordered it blocked because instead of
funding socialisation the money had gone on the militia and buying guns.
The militia had started killing people. As the situation deteriorated Ali
Alatas ordered the next 9 billion stopped. "Don't give them the 9
billion." But militia activitites had begun and now there was no
money to pay them."
Adelino Gutteres worked for the head of the the FPDKDomingos Koli
Soares who by March was having trouble paying his militiamen. But Domingo
Koli Soares had excellent government contacts - he was also the Bupati or
the Mayor of Dili.
Adelino "The Bupati ordered me to get the money. He said
"whatever you have to do, just get it."
March was a difficult time to be seeking money from government depts.
It was the end of the Indonesian financial year and they were all broke.
To ease the cash crisis the army provided militia leader Eureka
Gutteres with a suitcase of counterfeit bills. But they were clumsy
reproductions, many with the same serial numbers and the banks, very
politely, declined to accept them.
From his government office in Dili, the leader of the FPDK cooked up
scheme with Governor of East Timor and the co-operation of ministries in
Jakarta that would permanently solve the militia's liquidity problems
A scheme to plunder development and welfare funds that had been
established to help the poor. A scheme where militia murderers could be
put on the books as charity workers. And best of allit would be largely
paid for by International donors
Jao has found one of the documents he was looking for It is a memo from
the Governor of East Timor to each of his district heads instructing them
to use their development and welfare budgets for the "socialisation
of autonomy"the kindest interpretation that could be given to this
document is that it was an order to misappropriate funds for referendum
propaganda. But the Governor was not too coy to make specific reference to
payments for militiaand in practice this is exactly what it was for
"They're miliita security guards. Then penggalangan, which means
This document is the blueprint for how the miltias would be funded from
May until the final killing spree in September when the Indonesians lost
the referendum. The scheme was delayed because the development and welfare
money hadn't yet arrived from Jakartabut it soon would Jao was
toldcourtesy of the World Bank
The World Bank the IMF and the Asia Development Bank had all made huge
contributions to the Indonesian budget but at the exact time of the
militia's financial crisis in March and April, a World Bank loan was the
pot of gold that the Indon government was waiting for.
Although the deal wasn't finalised the money was as good as in the bank
for the bureaucracy in Dili. In fact a loan was taken out against it to
keep the militia machine rolling. The Department of Political Affairs
arranged the loanand Jao's department had to guarantee that they'd repay
it out of the first development and welfare funds to arrive
Jao "Yes because they were waiting for this money to be able to
start their activities. It was delayed Activities such as the second
attack on Santa Cruz, Quintal Kiik, Bemori, Becora, Comoro... For
instance, Jaqquim was killed in Becora. All of that was funded by this
As the bureaucracy made the necessary financial arrangements the
militias were preparing themselves for their biggest bloodbath to date. A
plan so chilling that the stakes were becoming too high for Thomas
Thomas "On March 26, the Governor told us that from May 1,
throughout the territory, we were to liquidate all the CNRT members, down
to their grandchildren. If the people sought help from priests, nuns or
the bishop, these too should be killed. That's why I decided to
After 24 years of being East Timors most prominent integrationist ,
Thomas Gonsalves had to begun to leak information to independence leader
Xanana Gusmao. And as Thomas fled East Timor in April the mass executions
120 people were taking refuge in this house in Dili . They'd already
had their own houses destroyed, they'd been stabbed and beaten, the women
had been raped.
In April, a large group of militiamen were given drugs and money to
come and attack them again. Dozens of refugees were shot and macheted as
they tried to scramble awayat least 12 of them died here. Others were
chased through the streets of Dili and their fate unknown.
In the same month 60 people were massacred in church at Liquica. And at
least another 15 killed in other parts of East Timor. And those killers
who weren't paid with the money that had been borrowed were paid with
IOU's against the expected arrival of World Bank funds.
Adelino "They were on credit, on credit."
Mark: They were on credit! A: "They were out of control when they
didn't get their money. They even came and threatened us, as well as
Mateus Maia (FPDK) their own commander. "
And just as things were turning ugly the World Bank released the loan
and the development and welfare money began to flow.
Ben Fisher "Our major objective is to alleviate poverty, this is
the major purpose of the world bank in both the long and short term All of
the World Bank loans have something to do with that."
Ben Fisher is second in charge of the World Bank in Jakarta. In the
early months of last year relations between the bank and the Indon
government were tense. Sources inside the bank report that the bank
discovered that development funds were being stolen and used for political
purposesincluding specific examples in East Timor.
Short version of question "I believe the expression was 'fund
A: we discovered that some of the programs were not effective "
Because of proven corruption the World Bank put on hold a billion
dollars worth of specific development funds that the Indonesian government
was expecting to receive in Maybut the government wasn't left empty handed
The World Bank advanced a general budget loan of 500 million US dollars
to the government in May - the second such loan in 3 months. It now
appears ironic that one of the major purposes of the loan was to assist
the Indonesian government in its efforts to reduce corruption and increase
the transparency of it public service
Ben Fisher "we were very pleased with the governments response at
the time and we dispursed that loan."
The loan would "provide the cushion for a fiscal stimulus while
protecting the poor and the vulnerable"
The World Bank was particularly impressed by the government's
commitment to "restore growth, reduce poverty and shield the
poor". In fact, it was now cashed up to kill them.
Jao: "this is the first 5 billion, issued on 14 May 1999."
Amongst the rubble, Joao has found some of the cheques that he was
ordered to draw from the Provincial development budget and give directly
to integration and militia groups
Jao: "This money wasn't meant for militia activities, it was for
aid. Aid. For example this one was for social welfare project."
This first cheque drawn from the development budget is for more than a
million dollars. It is written directly to a government official,
Radjakarina, who was able to cash the cheque or deposit directly to his
personal account. Radjakarina, was the Governors secretary. He was also a
Senior member of the BRTT, one of the most prominent pro integration
groups, and he was broadly regarded as its defacto treasurer. The cheque
specifically states that it is for the purposes of a Socialisation team.
Joao had to ensure that Radjakarina used part of this money to repay
the blood debts from April, and the balance was for the use of integration
groups and their miltias
Adelino: "Mark: So was any money used for development? (include
A: "No money was spent on development after we gave the 3 billion
to the militia. There was nothing left to spend. No projects went
Adelino was in charge of planning and development for the district of
Dili There were 13 districts in East Timor, each of them receiving more
than 3 billion rupiah for general development and welfare
Adelino: "Mark: So they turned your department into a bank for the
A: It was all for the militia. The whole 1999 budget was for the
The World Bank may not be responsible for frauds enacted without its
knowledge. But remarkably the World Bank discovered this fraud in the
first month that it began. A copy of the governors decree ordering the
abuse of development and welfare funds landed in their lap
Ben: "oh yeah, I think we've seen this yeah."
The World Bank became aware of the plan to steal the money for the
miltias just weeks after finalising their 500 million US 'anti corruption'
loan. In the past 5 months they'd handed a total of almost a billion US
dollars to the government.
"Mark: This must have been very disturbing to you. A: Certainly
M: Well what was your specific reaction? A: Well my specific reaction
and the reaction of my colleagues in government is that we were very
'We got told and we got to know about this and we stopped it
immediately and we said no this is not to be..".
"In last May and June when we received these very serious
allegations and we investigated them we felt that the response of the
central government was as strong as possible.
Mark: Which was to do nothing.
A: It wasn't to do nothing. The decrees were rescinded"
If Jakarta issued a piece of paper rescinding the decrees to steal
development and welfare for the miltias apparently only the World Bank
took it seriously. The scam continued without so much as a blipwith the
Co-operation of a host of Indonesian ministries.
And the cheques kept flowing
" This is the first payment. After that money was used, they asked
for more. And this is the second payment, issued on the fourth of
June." . . These cheques continue throughout May, June and July and
there's more to be found. They should have been made out to other
departments or businesses providing services to the government. They are
all made out directly to individuals who were openly or covertly linked
with the miltiasincluding the leader of the FPDK - the Bupati of Dili.
Some openly declare they are for "socialisation" others are
supposedly welfare for the poorbut in case Joao was told the money was
needed for integration and militia groups and was told to ignore standard
"We have a very rigid administration in the Bupanas and so on. I
doubt it. It's inconceivable that funds that are allocated for something
can so easily be switched for something else. Impossible."
Ali Alatas is right - it would be impossible to conduct a barely
disguised fraud such as this without the consent of Senior department
officials and ministers.
Both Joao from the provincial government and Adelino at the district
level maintain that communication with their ministries in Jakarta
regarding this scam was constantas was the flow of money to the miltias.
Adelino "We prepared the papers and issed 600 million. That turned
out not to be enough. Then we issued another 300 million. That was enough.
After we'd paid a total of 2.6 biolion, they came back and forced us to
"Mark: You must have had concerns for the money you had given to
Jakarta that it was being used through the development budget for the
M: And you became aware of this in May?
A: Absolutely. Mark we had very strong concerns that the development
budget was being used to keep kids in school, to buy medicines, build
M: But it wasn't!
A: Outside of East Timor..
This fraud did not involve specific World Bank projects or staff and
the World Bank weren't the only international donor. But the World Bank
knew that the scheme had begun and they had a billion dollar stick to
wield to ensure it finished.
M: What I am suggesting is did you take this seriously enough? Well
that's for history to decide
Should we penalise School children in sulawesi because of what is
happening in another part of Indonesia
For a week Jose and I tracked down public servants from the development
and welfare sections from Dili to small townsall of them had similar
Maliana man "The housing didn't go ahead. The road building didn't
go ahead, nor the water supply for the people. So all of that was diverted
to those various activities."
Benjamin Barreto was given a job as the Secretary of the Development
Department in Maliana. But he was left in no doubt as to what his real job
wasto fund the pro integration groups referendum and pay the militias
"For each person you killed, you got 3 million rupiah. That was
the district military commander's plan. He received 800 million rpuiah for
the militias. He used it for bounty payments. He used it for that."
As the referendum approached it became absolutely apparent that
millions were being spent on the militiasthousands were on the payroll,
transport and communications provided, tonnes of rice and oil given away
to buy votes, leaders becoming rich
It was been broadly assumed that it was the military pouring the money
in but if you were familiar with the workings of the Indon government, if
you'd seen the planyou might have had pause for thought.
"Our understanding was that those would be stopped and to the best
of our knowledge it was stopped. The order was retracted."
And what wasn't apparent to the world bank would have been known or
blatantly obvious to anyone in the government.
Alatas "Mark: Who did you imagine was paying them
A: I don't know
M: Well you must have had some suspicions? Who did you imagine was
A: Why should I have suspicions? We are a government
M: Because people are dieing and you have made pledges to the
A: People are dieing and we were against it.
"All the documents were kept here. That's why they burnt it down.
All the documents concerning money for the militia were issued from
here." . By July of last year, virtually all of the resources of the
Dili administration were at the disposal of the militias and there
expenses were now running out of control
In just 6 months they'd spent probably 12 million dollars of
development and welfare funds, 2 million from Foreign Affairs, the entire
Transmigration budget for East Timor and contributions from other
departments and the referendum was still more than a month away
Adelino: "The miltias came and kicked in the secretary's door,
abusing and threatening everyone."
Even more creative accounting by the Indonesian bureaucracy was
"We held a meeting here with the deparments of Public Works, Water
Supply, Road and so on, to take 75% of their budgets for the militia and
give 25% to the contractors."
The time had now come to dip into major projectsand for a cut the
construction contractors agreed to sign documents saying that ghost
projects were complete and Indonesia won more brownie points with the
international donor community for all of the roads, bridges, irrigation
systems it was apparently building in East Timor. Everyone was a winner
The frenzy that followed the referendum in September was a logical
conclusion to the madness that had gone before it.
A madness incited and paid for not just by the Military but by the
Departments of Information, Transmigration, Foreign Affairs, Planning
& Development, Forestry, Agriculture, Political Affairs and the
Department of Finance
The Indonesian government may yet be prepared to sacrifice what they
are referring to as 'rogue elements' of the armybut if the rogue elements
are taken to court they are likely to take large sections of the
government down with them.
Alatas "We have gone as far as saying that perhaps you know
certain rogue elements were involved, yes. But I don't know..
M: Well these rogue elements go right up the command of TNI and now
clearly they cross into the Cabinet. Is Lopez Da Cruz a rogue element?
A: No of course not. But he is not involved in the killing //
"let's put the blame where the blame resides.
M: Well were should the blame reside?
A: Probably those who are wielding the machetes and who are wielding
the guns and so on.
Some of the people who were wielding the machetes and the guns are
being kept here at this Falintil camp behind Dili .
These men have been accused of being miltitia members. None of them are
militia leaders but they may still be the only ones who will face the
justice system. Not their military commanders or their ministerial
"We are not educated people who write in offices. We're
illiterate, working in farms and paddyfields. They called us, took our
names and said, " you've got to join this group." We said,
"What are we joining it for?" They said, "If you refuse to
join, you'll see what happens." So we were scared and we
"When we joined the militia, we thought it was a good thing. But
they told us to do all these things. I knew nothing, but was forced to do
all those things. We did it all against our will. They forced us to do it.
I feel pain inside. We didn't know what was going on. The educated ones
set this up for us to do terrible things to each other."
In a forest West of Dili Filomena's husband is unearthed. His wife and
children now know how he was killed - with his ears cut off and his head
caved in. But in a ledger in the department of finance, this is not a
grave it's a road project or a canal, not a murder but a public service.
Note: For those without a fax application on their computer - CallCenter
V3.5.8, is a Native 32-bit Voice Telephony software application integrated with fax and
data communications... and it's free of charge! Download from http://www.v3inc.com/