Subject: USGOV: Zoellick Press Roundtable in Indonesia

[East Timor excerpts - full text at]

Press Roundtable in Indonesia Robert Zoellick, Deputy Secretary Dharmawangsa Hotel Jakarta, Indonesia May 7, 2005


QUESTION: The other issue is since two Americans were killed in this incident that it seems to be holding up military to military cooperation, but another American was killed in Atambura a couple of years before that in a militia attack. You know East Timorese militias were generally believed to be under command of the TNI. He was killed in an attack on a UNHCR office and two others, a Croat and an Ethopian were killed along with him. His name was never mentioned as a condition for resumption of mil-to-mil ties. Why is there this focus on Timika and not focused on Atembua?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK: Well, we're also focusing on East Timor. I was emphasizing that at the discussions as part the there's a UN effort as you know to have an investigation and that's leading into what I believe is called the Truth and Reconciliation or Truth and Friendship Process of East Timor. So it's not only focusing on the one incident and it's part of a larger issue about trying to deal with the human rights issues for TNI but also trying to support the reform of TNI.

QUESTION: On that issue of human rights in East Timor, do you first of all think that this Truth and Friendship Commission that the East Timorese and the Indonesians have set up and set up as a an attempt to block the formation of a commission of experts by the UN to look into the justice process so far? Do you think that is going to be a block to getting some kind of resolution on human rights issue in East Timor, and secondly, what do you mean by resolving this human rights issue in Timor? If we were to ask this question of an Indonesian panel, they would say, "Well, it's been resolved. We've had our court process. The people who are guilty were tried. They've gone through our court system. What more do you want us to do?" Do you need a scalp? Do you need someone to be handed over to a court process in East Timor? What is the kind of the resolution that you see to that?

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK: Well first off, my understanding is that the UN Commission on Experts is related and to try to supply some information not to the Commission. So at least the information I have is whether POLDEP supplies information to the Truth and Friendship Commission. And so one of the issues that I heard included cooperation with that UN Commission on Experts because the provision of that information would support the credibility of the reconciliation commission. Now there are other issues. For example reconciling boarders and several other aspects of the relationship of the central issue. But, I can't...use the phrase you did about saying one is just trying to get, you know, sort of one result out of the process. I think what I urge more generally was the fact that, while I know these issues are difficult, that what I've seen in other places around the world is, is that bringing out the facts and the evidence over time is the most important part for creating the basis for reform. Now, there is going to be resistance to that, so if you ask what will happen, I can't say for sure. But that's what we're trying to press.

QUESTION: So that would mean that we would bring out..I don't understand

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK: The cooperation with the UN Commission on Experts. The UN Commission of Experts has asked, as I understand it, to .

QUESTION: visit Indonesia.

DEPUTY SECRETARY ZOELLICK: to visit Indonesia to pursue various experts. Right, as part of gathering evidence on individuals and ask individuals and that relates to supporting the Commission on Truth and Friendship or Truth and Reconciliation, I have heard both used here. And the credibility of that second commission will depend I think in the eyes of the larger world on whether the UN Commission on Experts can have the follow-up. They haven't been able to get that, so yes, that's something we need to continue to press.

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