| Subject: AAP: Downer reassures on Kopassus
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QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: Foreign Affairs: Indonesia Date 12 August, 2003
Mr RUDD (2.16 p.m.)—My question is to the Minister for Foreign Affairs. Does the Minister for Foreign Affairs still stand by the statement made by the deputy secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, in Senate estimates on 22 November 2002, confirming that Kopassus had links to the terrorist organisation Laskar Jihad and that Kopassus may have other links to other organisations involved in terrorist activities? Minister, was the deputy secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade telling the truth on behalf of the Howard government about Kopassus links to terrorist organisations or does the foreign minister, like the Prime Minister, now regard this as a non-core truth taken out of context? Government members interjecting— Interjection The SPEAKER—The member for Griffith will withdraw the concluding part of his question. Continue Mr RUDD—The final part of my question is: does the foreign minister now regard this as a non-core truth? Answer Mr DOWNER—I do not think that asking questions with that sort of suffix rises to the level of dignity one would expect in the parliament. One of the reasons the opposition lack credibility out there in the Australian community is their constant political point scoring. I answered a question which was asked of me by the member for Maranoa. In it I made perfectly clear that, whilst I am not aware of any TNI policy of cooperation with Laskar Jihad—an organisation which claims to have disbanded itself on 14 October 2002—individuals in TNI appear to have had contact with Laskar Jihad members. I made that perfectly clear. For the benefit of the House, let me make two other points about that. Firstly, Kopassus is part of TNI, so there is no question of that. Secondly, I did say that in talking with Kop-asssus unit 81 we will limit our cooperation to exclude those people we know to have links to Laskar Jihad and other violent groups or who have been involved in serious human rights abuses. This policy stands in stark contrast to the policy of the Labor Party. My predecessor, Senator Evans, said in relation to links with Kopassus that he wanted work with Kopassus to focus on `low-level military war fighting skills'. That was the standard set by the Labor Party. All I can say is that when it comes to points of principle, this government is much more principled on the issues of Indonesia, East Timor and human rights than ever the Labor Party was. 14 August, 2003 House Hansard Page 18579 QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE Foreign Affairs: East Timor Question Mr RUDD (2.00 p.m.)—My question is to the Minister for Foreign Affairs. I refer to page 147 of the Department of Foreign Affairs publication East Timor in Transition 1998-2000, which records an incident at Suai on 6 October 1999. Does the minister recall that, in this incident, an INTERFET vehicle came under fire in a militia ambush? The two Australian INTERFET soldiers were seriously wounded and two militia were killed in the exchange. Can the minister assure the House that neither Gardapaksi, described by the minister's department as closely associated with Kopassus and used to conduct activities on its behalf, nor any other Kopassus-trained militia unit were responsible for opening fire on Australian troops on that occasion? How will the minister ensure that, in the re-establishment of links with Kopassus, all those Kopassus troops responsible for the training of militia in East Timor for operations against pro-independence elements and the Australian Defence Force will not form part of the Kopassus units with whom the minister now proposes to re-establish links? Answer Mr DOWNER—It has been a longstanding policy not just of this government but of the previous Australian government that, where we are aware of known people being involved in partner militaries—and I refer in particular to what used to be ABRI and is now TNI—we endeavour not to be involved in any activities jointly with those people. That is the policy of this government, it was the policy, as I understand it, of the last government and we will continue to maintain that policy. Our view, as I expressed it two days ago, is that, where we are aware of TNI members, be they in Kopassus or in other units of TNI with which we may have, through necessity, some degree of cooperation, and where those people have been involved in egregious human rights abuses of one kind or another, then we will not be participating in activities with those people. I make another point: this government believe that it is fundamentally important that we at least do all that we possibly can to protect the security of Australians. We make no apology for the fact that we are prepared to work with those elements in Indonesia— Interjection Mr Rudd—So why aren't the Americans? Interjection The SPEAKER—The member for Griffith has asked his question! Continue Mr DOWNER—that have the greatest capacity to help release Australians who may be taken hostage in that country or who may be part of some hijacking drama— Interjection Interjection The SPEAKER—The member for Griffith is defying the chair! Continue Mr DOWNER—We make no apology for working with those organisations to help Australians because, on this side of the House, we are unapologetic about standing up for our national security and the safety of our people. One of the most ironic interjections I think I have heard in a very long time from the rather anti-American Labor Party is the interjection of the member for Griffith, who says, `What about the Americans?' No, sir, we do not take our instructions on this matter from the Americans. KEVIN RUDD M.P. MEDIA RELEASE Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs DOWNER ON KOPASSUS Downer maintains the fiction that he’ll sift out Kopassus units that attacked Australian soldiers in East Timor Foreign Minister Downer dug himself into a deeper hole in Parliament today by asserting he would be able to separate out bad Kopassus units from good Kopassus units in terms of those with whom the Howard Government will now re-establish links. Specifically, Mr Downer was asked to confirm for the House that none of those Kopassus units were responsible for training the militia that attacked Australian troops in East Timor in October 1999. That attack resulted in two Australian soldiers being seriously wounded. Mr Downer’s own Department has produced a publication that not only details those attacks but also shows that Kopassus had a close association with militia organisations which “used to conduct activities on Kopassus’ behalf” (see East Timor in Transition 1998-2000, pg 58 & 147). In his answer in Parliament today Mr Downer refused to confirm whether Kopassus was involved in the October 1999 attacks on Australian troops. He also refused to outline how in practical terms he proposed to screen out Kopassus units who had been engaged in:
Mr Downer continues to maintain the fiction that he will somehow have access to the personnel files of the 5,500 members of Kopassus in order to separate out those who are responsible for any of the activities listed above. Labor continues to maintain that for the last ten months since the Bali bombings, the Howard Government should have been dedicating large-scale resources to the development of counter-terrorism capabilities within the Indonesian National Police. These ten months have effectively been wasted. Ends. 14 August 2003
MEDIA RELEASE DOWNER CONFIRMS KOPASSUS STILL HAS TERRORISM LINKS And Downer says he’ll sift out the good guys in Kopassus from the bad guys – and we’ll only be dealing with the good guys! Australian foreign policy reached a state of high farce in the Parliament today when Foreign Minister Downer confirmed his Government would be re-establishing links with an organisation it knows has had links with terrorist organisations. In question time today, in vintage Downeresque, the Foreign Minster stated:
The Opposition has been asking the Government to clarify whether advice provided to the Senate nine months ago that Kopassus had links with terrorist organisations is still valid. Far from giving Kopassus a clean bill of health, Mr Downer proceeded in Parliament to outline that there was still a problem with Kopassus’ links with terrorist organisations like Laskar Jihad. This is absolutely extraordinary: a Government arguing it will further the fight against terrorism in Indonesia - by linking up with an organisation that has itself been linked with terrorism. And what was Foreign Minister Downer’s novel response to dealing with this dilemma? Mr Downer says he will now pick and choose which Kopassus staff Australia will now have links with – separating out those who have been associated with Lasker Jihad in the past and those who have been responsible for “human rights abuses”. How on earth does Mr Downer intend to do this? Just how practical a policy is it? What operating principles will Mr Downer apply? How will Mr Downer know that a given Kopassus operative has in the past been involved in covert operations with Laskar Jihad, given Kopassus is an organisation of 5,500 people? Neither Mr Downer nor Mr Howard have explained why they sat on their hands in the 10 months since the Bali bombing and not responded to Indonesian National Police requests to assist them in acquiring better counter-terrorism capabilities. Why has this time been wasted? And notwithstanding the Government’s failure to act on this in the preceding 10 months, what resources will the Government now dedicate to this task? Australian SENATE Wednesday, 13 August 2003 Senator Nettle to move on the next day of sitting: That the Senate— (a) notes: (i) the serious allegations of kidnap, beating and arson in relation to the tactics of Indonesian Special Forces ‘Kopassus’ in their deployment in Aceh, (ii) the unresolved allegation that Kopassus was involved in the murder of United States citizens near Freeport, West Papua, in 2002, (iii) that Kopassus members have been found to be responsible for the murder of West Papuan independence leader Theys Eluay in November 2001, (iv) that Kopassus troops trained East Timorese militias responsible for massacring civilians and attacking Australian forces in East Timor, and (v) that Kopassus members have been found to have links with terrorist organisations including the now disbanded Laskar Jihad; and (b) calls on the Government: (i) to cancel any planned re-establishment of cooperation with Kopassus, (ii) to acknowledge that it is not in the best interests of Australia or the region to extend tacit support for an organisation which engages in terrorising civilian populations, and (iii) to heed the advice of Professor Damien Kingsbury of Australia’s Deakin University that Indonesia’s military is ‘part of the problem, not part of the answer’ and that restoring military cooperation should be off the agenda until the Indonesian military ‘is thoroughly reformed, including closing its business and criminal networks, and it is brought under full civilian authority’. Question put.{August 14, 2006] The Senate divided. [9.41 a.m.](The President—Senator the Hon. Paul Calvert) Ayes………… 9 Noes………… 40 Majority……… 31
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